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WHO knew about the Colborn call

April 20, 2020
Zoey

A Reddit post made by mincedtomatoes

DA Rohrer, ADA Griesbach, Sheriff Petersen, Lt. Lenk, Sgt. Colborn, Gene Kusche all were aware of the 1995 phone call (and Kocourek) prior to Avery’s release. DA Rohrer did not mention those names to the AG, and documents were not given.

WHO knew about the Colborn call (HOW they found out, WHEN they found out)

The conclusions we can come to is that in the summer of 2003 Gene Kusche retired, and Lenk was his replacement. Shortly After his retirement but 2-3 months before Avery’s release (Around June through August), Colborn and Kusche discussed the call Colborn received. Kusche was sure that he received this information after he retired, which is why Kusche questioned if Lenk was aware, with Colborn confirming Lenk was already aware. Based on the recollections of Kusche (Supported by Jones memo), Kusche/Lenk/Colborn at the very least had discussed the Avery 1995 phone call details prior to Avery’s release.

Lenk wrongly claims in depositions that the conversation with Colborn in Lenk’s office took place on September 12th, 2003, although he never says so in his statement. What Lenk is implying in his deposition by saying September 12th, is implying that he’s first hearing about Colborn’s 1995 call after Avery’s release. Colborn told Kusche months before Avery’s release, that Lenk was already aware of the information. Lenk was aware long before September 12th.

Petersen also testifies this all took place on September 12th and that’s the first he hears about it. He’s lying, and it’s clear, and you’ll see how he’s lying below, in his first meeting with the DA (days before Avery’s release on September 11th).

Another conclusion is Rohrer said in his deposition that he was aware of the Lenk and Colborn information either before the initial meeting with MTSO (Days before Avery is released), or learned of it at the meeting. He doesn’t recall which. He also thinks he first heard of the Lenk and Colborn information from Petersen. Problem there is, The day he says he heard about it from Petersen, is a week before Petersen claims he first hears about it from Lenk/Colborn.

Point is, Rohrer knew about the call before Avery’s release and before visiting the AG on September 18th to discuss the review. The Douglass Jones memo also confirms that Rohrer was aware of the Colborn call by the time Douglass Jones wrote his memo on September 18, https://imgur.com/kVzBlb3, Meaning Rohrer heard about the news from somewhere (from Petersen days prior to Avery’s release).

The ADA, Griesbach, says he was also aware of the contents of the Douglass Jones memo by the time it was written. Griesbach knew the details of Colborn confirming Kocourek FROM Rohrer, https://imgur.com/R6rhdNW, meaning again, Rohrer also knew about the Kocourek detail in Colborn’s story by the time they visited the AG.

To summarize: Petersen, Colborn, Lenk, Kusche, Rohrer, Griesbach were all aware of the Colborn call in 1995 PRIOR to Avery’s release, that it was regarding Allen, and that Colborn talked with Kocourek and was told the “right guy was in jail” for it.

Memories from people present in the meeting with Manitowoc DA and MTSO, days BEFORE Avery’s release:

There was a meeting with Manitowoc DA and the MTSO in Peterson’s office, prior to Avery’s release. The date isn’t specified, but it is within a couple of days of Avery’s DNA results coming back. The DNA results came back on September 3rd. https://imgur.com/bm6Nc6K

Petersen:

  • Recalls meeting with Rohrer is before Avery’s release, meaning the meeting is before September 11th. https://imgur.com/sA5Hkk8
  • Claims he only had THIS meeting with Rohrer and NO other conversations with Rohrer about the Avery case. https://imgur.com/H9PSGNQ. This claim must mean that it was at this meeting that Petersen informed Rohrer (and Griesbach) about the Colborn call in 1995, and Colborn talking to Kocourek.

Rohrer:

  • Recalls above that he received the Colborn information from Sheriff Petersen, just does not recall if he knew of it going INTO the meeting with MTSO, or if he learned about it FROM the meeting with MTSO. https://imgur.com/HEICWms

Griesbach:

  • Remembers the meeting as involving Rohrer, himself, Sheriff Petersen, Beck, possibly Bushman. https://imgur.com/gSWraTS
  • Doesn’t recall Colborn or Lenk being discussed at the meeting, say they “may have or may not have”, but was already aware of the Colborn call and the details by September 18th. https://imgur.com/kuuJySr

The conclusions we can draw above are that Rohrer, Griesbach met with MTSO at some point between September 4th and 11th (prior to Avery’s release) and were either made aware of the Colborn/Lenk information at this time, or knew about it going into the meeting with Petersen. It is not clear which. Whichever it is, the point is BEFORE Avery was released on September 11th, BEFORE Petersen and Lenk claimed to first have heard about it.

Petersen apparently gave Rohrer and Griesbach documents from the vault in this early meeting, the same vault the Lenk and Colborn statements would be put into on September 12th. Rohrer doesnt receive the statements by Lenk and Colborn from Petersen at this early meeting, because those documents were not created yet at the time he met with Petersen. Why would they be? Avery wasn’t released yet and there’s no reason for Lenk or Colborn to be discussing this with Petersen let alone anyone else like Kusche.

Rohrer and Griesbach met with Petersen at the MTSO almost a week before Petersen requested Colborn/Lenk write statements on the 1995 phone call. Those statements apparently were not forwarded to Mark Rohrer or the Manitowoc DA office. As such, they were not included in what Rohrer forwarded over to the AG office. Instead, they were put in the MTSO vault. Because they were in the vault and never given to Rohrer, Rohrer never had paper copies about the information Lenk and Colborn documented.

By the time Rohrer and Griesbach went down to the AG (September 18) to meet with them and kick off the review, Rohrer was armed with the names of Colborn, Lenk, and Petersen as names of people in the MTSO that had direct knowledge of Kocourek, Avery, and Allen. Also, he was armed with the names of the ladies in the DA’s office. However, at this point in time, the DA’s file on Avery he forwarded earlier in the week, prior to the in person meeting, does not contain any documents about Lenk, or Colborn, or Petersen, or Kocourek from 1995. It also won’t contain the Lenk and Colborn statements written on September 12th. This is because the only meeting Rohrer has with Petersen happened around September 6th, days before the statements are written and put in the vault. Lately, it won’t contain the Douglass Jones memo, yet to be written at this point in time.

Reviewing the sequence of events according to Colborn, Petersen, Lenk

  • Lenk claims he found everything out the day after Avery was released, September 12th, and told the sheriff about it. https://imgur.com/jMvZAU6
  • Colborn claims the sheriff was waiting for him as Colborn came into work on September 12th, and asked Colborn to write a statement the same day. https://imgur.com/LL3VtA8
  • Petersen claims Lenk and Colborn came into his office together, they discussed it, and he asked them for a statement. https://imgur.com/gFCSGDK

Above, we have 3 different versions of the same event. All of them are false to a degree, because all of them give the impression that this information was uncovered the day Avery was released. This information was circulating within the sheriff’s department from at least 1995 (Colborn to Kocourek), then again in 2003 (MONTHS before Avery’s release by Colborn to Kusche/Lenk). Every testimony above tries to give the impression that Avery’s release sparked the memory jog in Colborn, who went to Lenk, who went to Petersen, who put it in the case file. That is false.

In reality, Petersen was aware of the Colborn’s information before he claims Lenk and Colborn came into his office on September 12th.. Err I mean before Colborn claims he saw Petersen waiting for him as he came into work… Err I mean before Lenk claims he is telling Petersen in Petersen’s office with Colborn not present… Regardless of whatever the case or lie they want to stick with, Petersen was already discussing the Colborn topic with Rohrer in their initial meeting days before.

Why did Petersen, Colborn, Lenk all wait until the day after Avery’s release from prison to say their memories were jogged? Because this way, they are not culpable for discussing the Avery case when they shouldn’t be discussing the Avery case (Before he is released). So there’s then no record of them documenting it and then failing to investigating further.

Petersen realized this might become a problem, other employees possibly coming forward to give recollection of events and corroborating other speaking about it like Colborn did with Lenk before Avery’s release… The only thing Petersen could do was tell the rest of the employees to not discuss it the very same day he told Lenk and Colborn to write the statements, https://imgur.com/6AMSOp0, meaning nobody else could come forward and inculpate past or present MTSO employees.

Initial meetings between Rohrer/Griesbach and the Wisconsin AG regarding the upcoming investigation

REMEMBER the initial meetings with Rohrer and Griesbach were with Tinker (lawyer from DOJ) over the phone. First 2 were before Avery’s release. 3rd phone call was very shortly after Avery’s release (but still before the in person meeting on the 18th) to coordinate sending the DA case file, https://imgur.com/pZpe1fJ.

The in person meeting at the AG, was September 18th, prior to Douglass Jones formulating his memo, https://imgur.com/E7J1mUK and https://imgur.com/WIYjcRP.

Also REMEMBER when Rohrer and Griesbach go to the AG on the 18th, that they are aware of the INFORMATION of the Colborn call, but are not aware of the STATEMENTS given by Lenk and Colborn that are residing in the MTSO vault since September 12th No memo was included in the file given to the AG. Without documentation in their case file, they do not mention the names of Lenk, Colborn, Petersen in regards to the 1995 phone call and Colborn speaking with Kocourek. Apparently they completely leave this information out.

About the Meeting between Rohrer, Griesbach, and the AG office on September 18th:

Rohrer:

Griesbach:

Fallon:

Strauss:

  • Remembers only females and program assistants from the DA’s office. No recollection of any names from MTSO being mentioned. https://imgur.com/0cwcJYr

Lehmann:

  • Doesn’t recall the names of the people who Rohrer mentioned, but answers that they went to interview the “females” concluding she was given the names of only the women, and not Lenk/Colborn/Petersen/Kusche. https://imgur.com/qyy72Hx

What we can conclude from the above initial meeting is that since Rohrer was not aware of anything being committed to paper regarding the 1995 phone call, he subsequently chose not to mention any of the names involved with that call. He didn’t mention Colborn, didn’t mention Lenk, nor Petersen when it comes to the 1995 phone call. He didn’t mention Colborn being told by Kocourek the right man was in jail and not to concern himself. He didn’t tell anyone in the AG’s office anything about Colborn receiving a phone call in 1995. That was completely left out, but why?

It makes it even more strange, because Griesbach remembered Rohrer discussing Colborn and Lenk weeks after he asked the AG to investigate, without providing anything regarding Colborn and Lenk to the AG. https://imgur.com/w3DmCrw

One can conclude the information was left on on purpose by Rohrer as to not bring trouble for any of the “new” deputies like Lenk and Colborn, ones that had nothing to do with the original investigation. However, the information Lenk and Colborn had was very crucial to the exact reason Rohrer requested the AG reivew – and that’s because people were making comments about going to Vogel and Kocourek.

Tinker said something important in his pictured testimony, he said he Rohrer raised the names in conversations between tinker and Rohrer leading up to meeting with the AG, they would have followed up. Guess what, DOJ didn’t follow up with Colborn or Lenk, no interview exists with either.

One last thing about Rohrer and Griesbachs first meeting with the AG on September 18th. They didn’t mention the Colborn call or any names, but they did mention sheriff Petersen telling Rohrer “Nobody except Kocourek felt Avery was guilty, https://imgur.com/3p42vwc. Notes from one of the DOJ lawyers fails to include names of people involved in the 1995 phone call, or the phone call itself. The conclusion is that the 1995 call information was not verbally passed on to the AG.

Summary

Kusche, Colborn, Lenk, Petersen were all aware of the 1995 phone call and Colborn talking with Kocourek PRIOR to the DNA results coming back to Rohrer from the crime lab. Petersen relayed the Colborn call information to Rohrer and Griesbach PRIOR to Avery’s release, meaning Petersen was aware of it prior to Avery’s release. Petersen and Lenk both falsely claim they found out the information from Colborn after Avery is released. Petersen did not request a written statement from Colborn or Lenk, even though he was aware of the information, until after Avery’s release as to not raise questions why they had been sitting on information for all this time. Avery’s release was the perfect time to document the information their DA was aware of, and even lenk testified he would not have written anything down, had the sheriff not told him to. https://imgur.com/oG1jaI6

Rohrer left out the details of Colborns 1995 call to the AG, and specifically left out the associated names as well. No documents of this call were handed over in the AG file. Investigator Strauss stumbled upon these 3 statements in the MTSO vault on September, and nothing further until end of October (one month after the start of the AG Review of 1985). No follow up was done with Lenk, or Colborn, or Kusche, or Petersen regarding this information. No such interview exists. “Why didn’t Strauss follow up with Colborn, Kusche, Lenk, Petersen?” would be a very reasonable question. Oh yeah, she apparently didn’t have that 1995 call information in detail from Rohrer at the start. Weird.

By the 4th and final draft, all mention of the sheriff’s department were taken out of the DOJ report. Since they didn’t do any interviews with Lenk or Colborn regarding the 1996 call, and since Rohrer didn’t mention those names in his initial meeting with the AGs office. The paragraph removed on the final revision was:

16 “Soon after the mistake became

17 public knowledge within the Manitowoc County

18 courthouse, the current district attorney, Mark

19 Rohrer, started receiving information that people

20 within the courthouse never believed these crimes were

21 committed by Avery. These people all believed Allen

22 committed the crime. Some of these individuals even

23 stated to DA Rohrer they made these concerns known to

24 either the district attorney at the time, Denis Vogel,

25 or the Manitowoc County Sheriff Tom Kocourek.”

Above are the reasons Mark Rohrer shit a brick (with his eyes) when he first saw the Douglass Jones memo in front of him during civil depositions, revealing the information about Colborn, Lenk, Kusche that he chose to leave out of the AG complaint. The memo that specifically says Rohrer was already aware by the time Jones approached him about the Kusche call. https://imgur.com/2abtBU2

Colborn lied about what he remembered in his statement and his deposition… Lenk lied about when he first found out about the 1995 call… Petersen lied about when he first learned about the 1995 call… Rohrer left out the 1995 call details when he went to the AG… Kusches call to Douglass Jones is what unraveled the yarn.

Rohrer and Griesbach had multiple chances to mention Colborn, the 1995 call, the conversations Kusche, Lenk, Colborn, Petersen were all having prior to Avery’s release, but they didn’t. It seems, also, the Douglass Jones memo was drafted up after the meetings with the AG took place. At the very least, the Douglass Jones memo was drafted the same day Rohrer and Griesbach ultimately met with the AG, September 18th. Regardless, the memo was not in the information handed over to the AG by the Manitowoc DA’s office.

These are all reasons the civil depositions were a big deal. It was uncovered that DA Rohrer and ADA Griesbach willingly withheld the 1995 call information from the AG in their kick-off meeting, even though Douglass jones confirmed Rohrer was aware of the information days before he visited the AG in Madison, Wisconsin. Kusche, Lenk, Colborn, Petersen all discussed the information of the 1995 call in detail, including discussing the Kocourek detail, prior to Avery’s release. Petersen waited until the day after Avery’s release to have Colborn and Lenk document the topic they were talking about for months and years, as a way to CYA (Cover your ass).

This above is all very much explained in Episode 2 of season 1, and actually reading the civil depositions confirms what everyone has suspected for years: Avery was screwed by both the new players in the MTSO, and the DAs office. Collectively they cost Avery at least 8 more years in prison.

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